
-------- TML Message #1529 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1529
Date:     Tue, 4 Sep 90 16:36:47 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Thoughts on Vehicle Design

I've been at the drawing boards again.  After thinking about it, there seemed
to be a few useful(?) reminders to those who want to do a bunch of designs.

SO:


How to Design a Traveller Vehicle Quickly (Rob's Rules)
       (without using a computer)

Rule#1: If it doesn't matter, don't worry about it.  The most critical example
of this is power consumption for electronics on most vehicles.  Unless a vehicle
is extremely small, the total of these values is almost always neglible.  Thus,
you can size your power plant at the beginning of the process based on an 
estimate of power required for weapons, environmental controls (only if grav 
plates are being used), and grav/thruster use.  There are a couple of rules of
thumb to remember.  "Full environment" (basic env, basic and extended life 
support, grav plates and inertial compensation) uses 1MW/displacement ton.  If
your vehicle is heavily armored, the three most massive components are likely
to be the hull, the grav drive, and the power plant.  You can fuss with these
numbers to get a good estimate of grav performance.

Rule#2: Decide what is critical first, and set your hull size accordingly.
For example, I wanted a TL12 small vehicle carrying a Plasma-B gun.  Energy
on that is 13.5 MW, dictating a power plant of at least 6kl.  Usually I build
vehicles around 1)the weapon 2) The accomodations (i.e., if you need roomy
seats for 16 people, this will drive the rest of the design) or 3) The speed.

Rule#3: Decide what factor is being optimized, and ignore the rest--this usually
means that in working on a combat vehicle I set the armor and weapon and let the
speed come out to be whatever it will be, or in building an inexpensive vehicle
I don't add any "chrome", or in building a fast vehicle I avoid as many massive
add-ons as possible.  

Rule#4: Having one vehicle makes a variant very easy--something like the 4 Tiger
class vehicles I posted a while ago took 40 minutes to do the first, and maybe
10 minutes apiece for the others, even including the time to write everything
down again, because 95% of each one was copied from the previous one.

Rule#5: Unless it really doesn't work, finish every design:  Real governments
have put some dreadful designs in the field, based usually on a false concept
of the conditions the vehicle would face, and there is no good reason that things should be any better in the future.  So unless the hull is too small to
stuff everything into, or you've put so much armor on that it can't possibly
fly, finish it.  (And assign it to that country/world you don't like...)

Rule#6: Governments don't care what it costs.  I have the dubious pleasure of
working for the U.S. Army as a civilian engineer, and this is certainly true.
So when I'm doing military vehicles, I pile in the sensors and other chrome.
How much is 5% extra capability worth in combat???


-------- TML Message #1530 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1530
Date:     Tue, 4 Sep 90 16:58:02 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Vehicles, part 8

Falchion Grav Tank TL12

     The Falchion is intended as a heavy grav tank.  The heavy armor 
restricts mobility, and the large power plant (45% of vehicle volume and 57% 
of vehicle cost) required to power the main laser restricts endurance.  The 
sensor suite is fairly powerful, as the designer anticipated a need to engage 
at extreme range due to the low speed. Extended life support has been 
installed to permit emergency occupancy of the vehicle for the full 63 hour 
endurance, but the seating design would render this exceedingly 
uncomfortable.

  CraftID: Falchion Grav Tank, TL12, Cr8,867,000
     Hull: 4/10, Disp=4, Config=4SL+turret, Armor=60F, Loaded=304.15t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=150MW, Dur=63hrs
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=400t, Max Speed=360, Cruise=270, NOE=160, 
           MaxAccel=0.3G
     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=Continental, MaserComm=Regional
  Sensors: EMM, EMS Active(Planetary), EMS Passive(Substellar), 
           Neutrino Sensor(1MW), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Routine, PassEnPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1

                      Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                      Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
    100MW Pulse Laser  57/4   100   Reg(250)  3      -     H     80
    2*2MW Pulse Laser  12/2     5   Dist(5)   3      -     H     80

      Def: -
  Control: Comp0*2, HeadsUpDisplay*3, DynLink*58
    Accom: Seats=Adequate*3 (Commander, Pilot, Gunner), Env=Basic env,
           basic ls, extended ls
    Other: Fuel=4.725kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
Falchion-B Grav Tank TL12

     The Falchion-B is intended as a light grav tank.  Essentially a 
modification of the Falchion heavy tank, the hull has been reconfigured to 
take maximum advantage of the increased speed gained as a result of reducing 
the armor.  The main gun reduction permits a substantially smaller power 
plant, in turn leading to a further decrease in weight, and allowing a 
sustantial increase in endurance.  Crew accomodations were increased in size, 
and can be occupied for extended periods if necessary.

  CraftID: Falchion-B Grav Tank, TL12, Cr6,253,000
     Hull: 4/10, Disp=4, Config=1AF+turret, Armor=40F, Loaded=116.11t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=96MW, Dur=11.5/34.5
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=400t, Max Speed=2430, Cruise=1820, NOE=160, 
           MaxAccel=2.4G
     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=Continental, MaserComm=Regional
  Sensors: EMM, EMS Active(Planetary), EMS Passive(Substellar), 
           Neutrino Sensor(1MW), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Routine, PassEnPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1

                      Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                      Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
     50MW Pulse Laser  49/4    50   Reg(100)  3      -     H     80
    2*2MW Pulse Laser  12/2     5   Dist(5)   3      -     H     80

      Def: -
  Control: Comp0*2, HeadsUpDisplay*3
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*3(Commander, Pilot, Gunner), Env=Basic env,
           basic ls, extended ls
    Other: Fuel=13.25kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
Arrow Attack Speeder TL12

     The Arrow represents an effort on the part of the designers to pack a 
potent high energy weapon into the smallest possible chassis.  The main 
limitation on the design was the size and weight of the fusion plant 
necessary to provide power for the gun. The gun is mounted in a fixed forward 
firing position.
 
  CraftID: Arrow Attack Speeder, TL12, Cr1,926,000
     Hull: 1/2, Disp=0.75, Config=1AF+cupola, Armor=20F, Loaded=33.8t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=21MW, Dur=10hrs
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=75t, Max Speed=1400, Cruise=1050, NOE=160, 
           MaxAccel=1.2G
     Comm: Radio=Continental, LaserComm=Distant(5km)
  Sensors: EMS Active(VDist), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1

                      Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                      Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
    PB-12 Plasma Gun  54/5    20  VDist(7.8) 2     30      H     40

      Def: -
  Control: Comp0*2, HeadsUpDisplay*1
    Accom: Seats=NoAccess*1(Pilot), Env=Basic env, basic ls
    Other: Fuel=0.21kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate
Quester Scout/Prospector Craft TL15
.pa     The Quester is designed to serve as a capable planetary auxiliary craft 
for a scout or prospecting team.  The vehicle includes an extensive arrary of 
sensors and comfortable long term accomodations.  Robot arms allow outside 
work to be done without leaving the vehicle, and the high speed allows rapid 
investigation anywhere on a planet.  The Quester is generally too expensive 
for the commercial market, but where available, there is a certain snob 
appeal in having one (not unlike the desire of 1990s Earth city dwellers to 
own a four wheel drive vehicle).


  CraftID: Quester Scout Craft, TL15, Cr3,980,000
     Hull: 8/18, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armor=8G, Loaded=37.9t, Unloaded=25.7t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=24MW, Dur=15/45
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=200t, Max Speed=3400, Cruise=2550, NOE=40, 
           MaxAccel=4.2G
     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=Continental
  Sensors: EMS Active(Planetary), EMS Passive(Interstellar), Low Pen 
           Densitometer(1km), Neutrino Sensor(10kw), ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassObjScan=Rout, PassObjPin=Rout,
           PassEnScan=Simp, PassEnPin=Rout
      Off: Hardpoints=1
      Def: -
  Control: Comp0*2, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*2, SmallStaterooms*2, Env=Basic env, basic ls,
           ext ls
    Other: Fuel=12.96kl, Cargo=11.25kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate
Horosho M1002 Walker Tank TL10

     The M1002 is part of a series of unusual vehicles designed for the 
planetary army of Horosho.  Extreme weather conditions render grav vehicles 
useless in the extensive mountainous areas.  Therefore walker vehicles are 
used to get the best possible cross country/rough terrain performance.
 
  CraftID: M1002 Walker Tank, TL10, Cr2,431,000
     Hull: 4/9, Disp=4, Config=4USL+turret, Armor=45E, Loaded=112.2t
           Unloaded=111.7t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=18MW, Dur=140hrs (5/15)
     Loco: 2/4, 8 Legs, P/W=160, RoadSpeed=204kph, Offroad=163kph 
     Comm: Radio=Planetary, LaserComm=VDist(50)
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=VDist(50), EMSPassive=Continental(5000), 
           ActObjScan=Difficult, ActObjPin=Difficult, PassEnScan=Formidable
      Off: Hardpoints=1, Stabilized to 120kph

                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
PA-10 Plasma Gun   -   44/5    20  VDist(5.1) 2     15      H    40
  5.5mm Gatling 25000   2/3     3    Dist     7      -      H   1280

      Def: -
  Control: Comp Mod0, HeadsUpDisplay*3
    Accom: Crew=3(Commander, Gunner, Driver), Seats=Roomy*3, Env=basic env,
           basic ls, ext ls
    Other: Fuel=2.52kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

-------- TML Message #1531 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1531
Date:     Wed, 5 Sep 90 16:21:11 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Vehicles, Part 9

}UDRAFT7}Hornet Light Tank TL8

     The Hornet is designed to be as light as possible to facilitate air 
transport, while retaining a reasonable combat capability.  The light armor 
makes it unpopular with crews.  

  CraftID: Hornet Light Tank, TL8, Cr125,284
     Hull: 2/4, Disp=1, Config=4USL+turret, Armor=15C, Unloaded=16.7t,
           Loaded=19.3t
    Power: 1/2, MHD=3.2MW, Dur=12hrs
     Loco: 1/2, Tracks, P/W=165, Road=254kph, Offroad=152kph
     Comm: Radio=Rgnl(500km), Laser=Distant(5km)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights, Light Amplification
      Off: Hardpoints=1, Weapon stabilized, 80kph

                      Pen/         Max    Auto   Dngr
           Ammo  Rds  Attn   Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
8cm HV Gun KEAP  140   29     9  Dist(16)  -      -      M    12
            HE    -    15    12  Dist(16)  -      30     M    12
           HEAP   -    26     9  Dist(16)  -      -      M    12
     HMG    -    800   6/3    3 VLong(1.5) 3      -      H    80

      Def: -
  Control: Elec*20
    Accom: Crew=2 (Driver,Gunner/Commander), Seats=Cramped*2, Env=Basic env
    Other: Fuel=2.1kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Cheetah Light Tank TL8

     The Cheetah was designed as an air-transportable light tank, but as 
with so many government projects, it grew out of proportion to its initial 
mission.  As finally produced, it could only be carried in heavy lift cargo 
aircraft, and had a gun too light for the rest of the vehicle.  In 
addition, as a last desperate attempt to cram everything in without 
upsizing the vehicle again, it was fitted with an experimental computer 
control system.  Difficulty with maintenance in the field made this a much 
complained about feature.  A fully enclosed breathing system is installed 
for the crew enabling operation in a chemically contaminated environment 
without use of protective suits.

  CraftID: Cheetah Light Tank, TL8, Cr260,878
     Hull: 2/5, Disp=2, Config=4USL+turret, Armor=30C, Unloaded=36.8t,
           Loaded=41.7t
    Power: 1/2, MHD=4.8MW, Dur=21hrs
     Loco: 1/2, Tracks, P/W=115, Road=189kph, Offroad=113kph
     Comm: Radio=Rgnl(500km), Laser=Distant(5km)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights, Light Amplification
      Off: Hardpoints=1, Weapon stabilized, 80kph

                      Pen/         Max    Auto   Dngr
           Ammo  Rds  Attn   Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
8cm HV Gun KEAP  140   29     9  Dist(16)  -      -      M    12
            HE    -    15    12  Dist(16)  -      30     M    12
           HEAP   -    26     9  Dist(16)  -      -      M    12
     HMG    -    800   6/3    3 VLong(1.5) 3      -      H    80 p73 

      Def: -
  Control: Comp Mod 0, ElecLink*5
    Accom: Crew=2 (Driver,Gunner/Commander), Seats=Cramped*2,
           Env=Basiv env, basic ls
    Other: Fuel=4.4kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Scorpion Heavy Tank TL8

     The Scorpion is designed as a front-line battle tank.  Its size and 
weight restrict the ability of owning governments to deploy it rapidly, 
which usually limits its use to selected heavy units.

  CraftID: Scorpion Heavy Tank, TL8, Cr950,796
     Hull: 4/9, Disp=3, Config=4USL+turret, Armor=45C, Unloaded=112.8t,
           Loaded=122.2t
    Power: 1/2, MHD=14.4MW, Dur=12hrs
     Loco: 1/2, Tracks, P/W=117, Road=191kph, Offroad=76kph
     Comm: Radio=Rgnl(500km), Laser=Distant(5km)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights, Image Enhancement, Radar=VDist(50km),
           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1, Weapon stabilized, 80kph

                         Pen/         Max    Auto   Dngr
              Ammo  Rds  Attn   Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  16cm HV Gun KEAP  60    38    16  Dist(28)  -      -      H     3
               HE    -    23    20  Dist(28)  -      40     H     3
              HEAP   -    45    16  Dist(28)  -      -      H     3
      2*HMG    -   1600   6/3    3 VLong(1.5) 3      -      H    80

      Def: -
  Control: Comp Mod 0, 21*ElecLink
    Accom: Crew=3 (Driver,Gunner,Commander), Seats=Cramped*3,
           Env=Basic env, basic ls
    Other: Fuel=5.04kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Moderate

Reliable Light ATV TL13

     The Reliable is produced throughout the Imperium, and is very popular 
as an auxiliary vehicle aboard small starships.  It has the advantage of 
using hydrogen fuel, available from the ship's tanks, and can be configured 
to run its fuel cells in open or closed cycle, which, along with the fully 
self contained life support system and airlock, enables operation in vacuum 
or any non-corrosive atmosphere.  The three large seats can be folded into 
6 roomy seats, or even 12 cramped seats for short trips.  Low ground 
pressure gives good offroad performance, and limits the possibility of 
damage to road surfaces, making urban operations practical.

  CraftID: Reliable Light ATV, TL13, Cr49,482
     Hull: 3/7, Disp=3, Config=4USL, Armor=4F, Loaded=13.3t,
           Unloaded=8.8t
    Power: 1/2, 8*FuelCells=1.08MW, Dur=30/90 (or 80hrs closed cycle)
     Loco: 1/2, Tracks, Road Speed=220kph, Offroad=132kph
     Comm: Radio=Regional(500km)
  Sensors: Headlights*2, Light Amplification p73 
      Off: Hardpoints=1
      Def: -
  Control: Elec*13
    Accom: Seats=ExtendedOccRoomy*3 (Driver, 2 passengers), Env=Basic env,
           basic ls, extended ls, airlock
    Other: Fuel=2.304kl, Cargo=4.3kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Intercity Bus TL9

     This type of vehicle is typically found providing low cost mass 
transportation between urban centers on worlds with an adequate long 
distance highway network. The roomy seats make extended trips barely 
tolerable.  Cargo capacity amounts to 0.7kl per passenger.  Fuel cost 
amounts to about Cr0.01 per passenger per kilometer when fully loaded, and 
would be the main contribution to the cost of travel.  Total cost of a 
ticket to allow for marginal loads, profit, driver salary and vehicle 
amortization would probably be about Cr0.02/kilometer. <It should probably 
be noted that this vehicle could be built without change at TL7 or TL8>

  CraftID: Intercity Bus, TL9, Cr42,138
     Hull: 23/56, Disp=25, Config=4USL, Armor=2B, Loaded=77.4t,
           Unloaded=28.1t
    Power: 1/2, InternalCombustion=4.5MW, Dur=12hrs
     Loco: 1/2, 10 Wheels, Road Speed=142kph, Offroad=28kph
     Comm: Radio=VDist(50km)
  Sensors: Headlights*2
      Off: Hardpoints=1
      Def: -
  Control: Elec*7
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*65 (Driver, 64 passengers), Env=basic env
    Other: Fuel=4.32kl, Cargo=45kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Urban Grav Bus TL10

     This type of vehicle is typically found providing low cost mass 
transportation within an urban area.  Use of an MHD turbine engine 
restricts the vehicle to breathable atmospheres.  The seats are small 
because it is not anticpated that passengers will be in them for very long.

  CraftID: Urban Grav Bus, TL10, Cr118,453
     Hull: 9/23, Disp=10, Config=4USL, Armor=2E, Loaded=25.6t,
           Unloaded=8.2t
    Power: 1/2, MHD Turbine=3.2MW, Dur=10hrs
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav, Thrust=32t, MaxSpeed=300kph, Cruise=225kph,
           NOE=40kph
     Comm: Radio=VDist(50km)
  Sensors: Headlights*2
      Off: Hardpoints=1
      Def: -
  Control: Elec*23
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*1 (Driver), Cramped*53 (53 passengers),
           Env=basic env
    Other: Fuel=1.4kl, Cargo=16kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

Sprinter Cargo ACV TL8 p73 

     The Sprinter is designed to carry cargo or vehicles over calm water at 
high speeds.  It is comparitively expensive, and sees little actual use 
save as a high speed landing craft in various Maritime Forces.

  CraftID: Sprinter Cargo ACV, TL8, Cr7,130,225
     Hull: 14/34, Disp=15, Config=4USL, Armor=4B, Unloaded=97.7t,
           Loaded=175.7t
    Power: 2/4, MHD=24MW, Dur=20hrs
     Loco: 1/2, AirCushion=220t thrust, MaxSpeed=300kph, Cruise=225kph,
           MaxAccel=0.25G
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km)
  Sensors: Radar=VDist(50km), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1
      Def: -
  Control: CompMod0*2, ElecLink*160
    Accom: Crew=4 (Driver, Asst Driver, Commander, Comm Officer), 
           Passengers=10, Seats=Roomy*14, Env=Basic env
    Other: Fuel=14kl, Cargo=64kl (64tons max), ObjSize=Avg,
           EmLevel=Moderate

Type M Subsidized Liner TL9

     This variation of the Standard Type M can be built at TL9.  Drawbacks 
include the lack of artificial gravity, limiting passenger appeal, and the 
unstreamlined hull, resulting in a dependence on port facility shuttle 
availability. 

  CraftID: Type M, TL9, MCr111.77
     Hull: 540/1350, Disp=600, Config=4USL, Armor=40D, Unloaded=4205t,
           Loaded=8140t
    Power: 10/20, Fusion=820MW, Dur=30/90+2 Jump 1
     Loco: 11/22, Maneuver=1, 11/22, Jump=1, Agility=1,
           Fuel for one jump=810kl  
     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=System
  Sensors: Radar=FarOrbit, ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=6 (no turrets or weapons currently installed, and
           vehicle controls would require upgrade for installation)
      Def: DefDm+3
  Control: Computer Mod1*3, Heads Up Display*4, CompLink*874
    Accom: Crew=7 (2 bridge, 2 engineer, 2 stewards, 1 medic),
           Passengers=16, Staterooms=23, LowPassengers=20, LowBerths=20,
           Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls
    Other: Fuel=1915.2kl(141.9 disp ton), Cargo=3801kl (281.6 disp ton),
           ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Faint

Admiral Bertil Modified Type M TL13

     The Admiral Bertil is a specially modified Type M liner, overhauled at 
Lunion in 1117 for an independent mercenary fleet.  As much of the outward 
appearance of the original vessel was retained as possible.  Major changes 
were made to the control and sensor systems (upgraded to a Model 7 
computer, which resulted in a reduction in the required operating crew to 
two men), and the cargo/living spaces, which were reconfigured into a 
launch/service bay for six Raptor class landers and accomodations for 78  p73 
crewpersons.  The cost given below includes the price of the landers.
Power allocation is such that the lasers cannot be operated at the same 
time as the grav plates and the inertial compensators.

  CraftID: Admiral Bertil, TL13, MCr606.8
     Hull: 540/1350, Disp=600, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Loaded=10625t,
           Unloaded=3912t
    Power: 14/28, Fusion=1800MW, Duration=30/90 
     Loco: 11/22, Maneuver=1, 22/44, Jump=3, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph, 
           Max=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System, Laser=System, Maser=System
  Sensors: EMS Active(Planetary), EMS Passive(Substellar), Neutrino
           Sensor (100kw), High Pen Densitometer (100m), ActObjScan=Rout,
           ActObjPin=Rout, PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Rout, PassEnPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=6

               Missile=x03     BeamLaser=x04
           Batteries     3                 1
           Bearing       3                 1

      Def: DefDM+9

               SandCaster=x04
           Batteries        2
           Bearing          2

  Control: Computer Mod7*3, 2*HeadsUpHoloDisplay
    Accom: Crew=78 (1 bridge, 2 medic, 1 engineer, 24 flight, 48 troops,
           2command), Staterooms=39, Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls,
           grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=2340kl, Cargo=417kl (30.8t), Missile Magazine=45kl
           (90b-r), Fuel Scoops, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Moderate

Triumph Class Cruiser TL13

     The Triumph class was designed as a flagship for an independent 
mercenary fleet, and built at Lunion in 1109.  The high cost of heavy 
spacecraft puts them beyond the reach of almost all mercenary units, and 
the Lunion government showed little interest in a craft with such 
diversified capabilities when they were already heavily committed to the 
production of a specialized fleet escort in the same tonnage range.  As a 
result, only two of these craft had been constructed by 1117--the Triumph 
and the Victory.
     
  CraftID: Triumph Class Cruiser, TL13, MCr9801
     Hull: 9000/22500, Disp=10000, Config=1AF, Armor=61F, Loaded=270598t
           Unloaded=261138t
    Power: 667/1333, Fusion=90000MW, Duration=30/90 
     Loco: 720/1440, Maneuver=3, 360/720, Jump=3, Cruise=2138kph, 
           Max=2850kph, Agility=0
     Comm: Radio=System, Laser=System, Maser=System
  Sensors: EMS Active(Planetary), EMS Passive(Substellar), Neutrino
           Sensor (100kw), High Pen Densitometer (100m), ActObjScan=Rout,
           ActObjPin=Rout, PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Rout, PassEnPin=Diff 83 
      Off: Hardpoints=100

               Missile=x07     BeamLaser=x09       PartAcc=080
           Batteries     2                 3                3
           Bearing       2                 3                3

      Def: DefDM+6, Nuclear Damper-3

               SandCaster=x09
           Batteries        2
           Bearing          2

  Control: Computer Mod7fib*3, 2*LargeHoloDisplay, 45*HeadsUpHoloDisplay,
           4840*HoloLink
    Accom: Crew=289 (11 bridge, 10 medics, 21 engineers, 10 flight,
           150 troops, 24 maintenance, 13 command, up to 111 additional at
           full double occupancy), Staterooms=200, Env=basic env,
           basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=63000kl, Cargo=4900kl, Missile Magazine=300kl(50b-r),
           Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier(12hrs), ObjSize=Large,
           EmLevel=Moderate

-------- TML Message #1532 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1532
Date:     Wed, 5 Sep 90 17:00:13 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Miscellaneous Replies

In Message 1524, Brent Woods writes:

>     Anti-cyborg prejudice?  Where'd that come from?  The only general <
> prejudice that I know of in the Imperium is *anti-psionic*.  Where'd  <
> they get a problem with cyborgs?                                      <

I'm not absolutely sure on this, but I think it is found in the Robots book,
under a discussion of when artificially intelligent robots are considered
to be citizens (and not.)  I think there was a remark that on some worlds
(not an Imperium wide prejudice) you could lose your citizenship/be
consdiered property for having "too many" cyborg replacement parts.

In Message 1525 Adrian Hurt writes:

> To summarise: at higher tech levels, you may only be able to kit out a<
> small force for the same cash, but you can make it invulnerable to    <
> anyone who doesn't do the same.                                       <

Exactly.  For a historical example, you need only look at the naval arms races
in the second half of the nineteenth century.  The most pressing example is
the Union in the American Civil War which would have found itself completely
unable to deal with Confederate ironclads such as the Virginia (aka Merrimac)
had a building program for their own ironclads not already been started.  This
sort of thing was repeated in the naval field frequently--the launching of
the Dreadnaught in 1906 pretty much rendered all previous battleships useless.
A question occurs to me as a result of all of this:  Would low tech planets 
inside the Imperium, that are not balkanized, maintain any sort of army?  If
the only conceivable threat is TL11+ Vargr corsairs, Imperial Marines or 
TL14 Aslan, your TL5-8 army will be useless, except to provide target practice
to the invaders.

The tag-end of -bertil-'s Message 1526

> "And your vehicle takes four suspension hits. You are all thrown out  <
> of your seats as your tank's 'suspension of disbelief' fails with a   <
> grinding noise. 'I won't buy this anymore!' your vehicle says.  'This <
> is ludicrous! Totally unrealistic! I'm outta here!' it says and drives<
> away into the sunset."                                                <

I tend to agree--the vehicle damage rules do not "feel" right to me, compared
to the fairly substantial number of wargames I have/have played.  At least
by multiplying the damage numbers by 10, as per the second errata sheet, you
prevent that barbarian from chopping the family car into rubbish with one
stroke of his mighty broadsword...

In Message 1527 Richard Johnson writes:

> To Robert Dean:  Stick with it.  Just remember, by the time he's a    <
> teen-ager, he'll be repaying all those sleepless nights with more     <
> sleepless nights.                                                     <
>                                                                       <
> Some folks will go to ANY length to recruit Traveller Players :-)     <
> (p.s. I already have four [three adopted])                            <

I was just commenting to my wife the other day that we might get in a year
or two of sleep somewhere between the time he starts sleeping through the
night an the time that he starts staying out all night...Actually, we had 
him so we could find someone else to play Lace and Steel with (much rarer
than Traveller players).  (-:

-------- TML Message #1533 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1533
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Vehicles
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 90 12:27:12 MET DST

> From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

> Admiral Bertil Modified Type M TL13

:-) :-) :-) :-)

- -bertil-
- -- 

-------- TML Message #1534 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1534
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: firearm calibres
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 90 10:59:13 BST

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:
> 
> Speaking of 7.62 rounds: while the 7.62 NATO rifle round is never fired as
> a pistol round (with the possible exception of a custom weapon), the Russian
> Tokarev pistol (the standard sidearm for Soviet officers, from 1930 until
> the end of WWII, when it was discarded in favor of the 9mm Makarov) DOES
> chamber a 7.62mm pistol round.  This round was adopted in 1930 for the Model
> TT-33 auto pistol.  This cartridge is very similar to the 7.63mm Mauser (also
> known as the 30 Mauser).

According to my book ("The Armory", a catalogue of firearms which is designed
mainly for use with role-playing games) the Tokarev round and the Mauser
round are the same.  The Czechs produce a round of the same dimensions, but
with more propellant.  They use it in a number of pistols and SMG's.  These
can also use the Mauser round, but lose some of their performance.  It is
unwise to use the Czech round in a gun intended for the Mauser round!

> One response you got already, was from Alvin M. Chan at
> CHAN93%SNYBUFVA.BITNET@CORNELLC.CIT.CORNELL.EDU, who writes:
> 
> >some other pistol calibres besides the 'popular' .22 .38 .357 (same as .38
> >just a longer case length for more powder) 9mm .44 .45ACP  are for instance :
> >
> >.40   .41  .50  .454  .457  .32  .375 .25ACP  .177 (4.5mm)  .451 magnum
> >.380 ACP,auto  .22 short, .22 long rifle (LR) , 7.65 parabellum, 10mm
> 
>	I can't find ANY references to a .451 magnum.  Only the 451 Detonics
> comes close and it, again, is a proprietary round.

The rounds of that general calibre that "The Armory" has heard of are:

Pistol: .44 magnum, .44 Automag, .455 Webley, .45 ACP, .45 Colt
(The Automag is a custom round.  You make one by taking a 7.62mm NATO
round, cutting off the neck, and putting in a .44 magnum bullet.  It has
occasionally been commercially produced, as has the gun.  The .45 Colt is
the Wild West one, the .45 ACP is the Colt Automatic one.)

Rifle: .44-40, .45 Martini, .45-70, .458 Winchester Magnum, .460 Weatherby
Magnum, .50-140 Sharps
(The .44-40 was used by the Winchester 1873.  The company is still around,
and their .458 Magnum round is for use against big animals.  So is the .460
Weatherby Magnum, the next best thing to an anti-tank rifle, and the most
powerful cartridge available outside the Army.)

>						    I assume the 7.65 para
> refers to the 32 (7.65mm) auto pistol round.

It probably refers to yet another round the same size as the Mauser .30.
This one was lower power, and pre-dates the Mauser.  It was used in the
Borchardt, the predecessor of the Luger, and also in the earliest Lugers.

Obligatory Traveller content:
Take note of all these different cartridge types, and note that a 9mm ACR
bought on one world may not accept ammo bought on another world!  Now you
know why many people use lasers.

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1535 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1535
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 01:13:09 -0500
From: Mark Gellis <f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: Firearm skill classes, Local listees?

[This mail was sent to traveller-request by mistake.  I forwarded it,
and added a more meaningful subject line -- James]

I have been reading the remarks on lasers, shooting, etc., and I thought 
I would put in my own two cents.  At the outset, I should let people know
that I run a very modified version of Traveller, and I'll try to briefly
explain any odds varients of my own that might confuse people.

For the sake of simplicity, I have have divided small arms into five classes.
Class I = Shoulder Arms (Shotguns/Grenade Launcher/etc.), Class II = Sniper
Rifle/Single-shot-at-a-time rifles (Laser Rifles/Bolt Action Rifle, etc.),
Class III = Automatic Rifles, Class IV = SMGs, and Class V = Pistols.  (Among
my players, Class I weapons are known as "Guns for the blind" and Class IV
weapons as "Guns for the palsied.')

Now, I know a good case could be made for claiming that laser rifles, lacking
recoil, etc., should be treated as a separate skill, and that even weapons with
recoil might be treated as separate skill based on power, range, etc. (If
you know how to fire a .22 rifle, do you automatically know how to handle a
rifle that can fire a .375 Winchester Express?)  

Fortunately, the easy way out, which, being a moral coward, I have taken, is
that "All of the weapons within any class are enough like each other, and 
different enough from other small arms, that, having learned to use one, you
will gain the benefit of increasing your chance to hit a target with all
similar weapons...after all, your success with any skill is only a matter
of increased or reduced PROBABILITY."  Okay, okay, it's a pretty thin
argument in some ways, I know, but it also makes sense, to an extent.  After
all, if you know how to use one rifle, you really do know a fair amount about
the basics of using most other rifles, even if you are not as experienced.
The easy way out would probably be to make people choose a weapon of choice
within a class, and give them a -1 with any other weapon in that class the
first few times they used it.

Of course, in most of the cases I have seen, it becomes a moot point.  Most
of my characters, even if they know every weapon skill in the book, only use
one or two weapons.  (Just curious if other GMs have this happen.  Any
interesting and/or funny stories?)  Which means that all our worrying about
separate skills becomes needless--if they know how to use a rifle, they will
probably choose the good ol' Durenkell-Smithe 5 mm. projectile carbine 
(3D - 2 damage w. slug rounds, 2.5 kg. mass unloaded, capable of holding a
10-round, 20-round, or 40-round clip, and capable of single shot or three-
round-burst fire) or some other gun and NEVER use anything else, even 
though they could switch rifles every game if they wanted.

On a totally different subject, I was curious which people on this list
are in the Indiana/Illinois area and whether or not you go to sf cons.  I
will probably be at Contact, Windycon, and Chambanacon--the first two are
iffy, the last is about 95% definite--and if you are going and want to 
get together and talk about game stuff, etc., please let me know.

Anyway, take care.

Mark

-------- TML Message #1536 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1536
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 90 19:37:55 GMT
From: Arthur Green <AJGREEN%IRLEARN@pucc.princeton.edu>
Subject: Spacecraft vs Top Gun, CyberGuns, MT Q's

[This mail was also sent to traveller-request by mistake.  I forwarded
it and added a more meaningful subject line -- James]

I've been catching up on my mail (ah, vacation) and came across a few
threads that I'll insert my meagre moneysworth ...

Spacecraft in atmosphere: Presumably these ships have vulnerable things
like radar antennae and comms aerials sticking out. If you KO a ship's
radar, what happens then? May not stop the thing, but it'll sure distract
the crew ...

Exotic weapon-gunner interfaces: This is starting to sound like cyberpunk
to me (not necessarily a bad thing - this isn't a flame - but old Traveller
was a goodole nuts'n'bolts game with no fancy wetware). Anyway some thoughts
about marketing these weapons occurs to me. How many soldiers/adventurers
are going to have the appropriate interface? Is there one standard interface?
How do you sell a weapon with a neural sight to a grunt from a tech 8 planet
who's never heard about these gizmos? How do you keep 'em working (heh, the
old malfunction at a critical time trick - my players used to hate this).

Just some thoughts. Also, how does Megatraveller compare to old Traveller?
I never moved to the new stuff. Looking at the vehicle and ship designs,
it seems like MT has some big improvements done. Is it worth an upgrade?

 - Arthur Green
 - University College Dublin Computing Services -- AJGREEN@IRLEARN.BITNET --
                                                   AJGREEN@IRLEARN.UCD.IE

 "You want jump-6 to where?"

-------- TML Message #1537 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1537
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 90 12:43:52 EST
From: grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: A question about starship meson weapons

hiya,

A friend and myself were talking about traveller (what else is
there to talk about?) and an interesting (?) point was raised:

	Starship meson weapons should not be subject to damage on the
	external damage table.

Since mesons are supposed to pass through matter without effect, why should
ships be designed with external meson mounts?  The MT rules do mention the
concept of a deep meson gun site for planetary defence and these guns are
not subject to damage.  It seems reasonable that starship weapons should
be likewise.  Spinal mounts would not need anything external to the ship
as they are not required to move (did anybody every notice the art-work
in some of the traveller books that show large starships with things
sticking out of them that are supposed to be meson guns???).  Bays would
probably have some kind of external opening (since they're sort of
changable) and turrets wouldn't need any (another interesting question
would be how many internal hardpoints would a ship get?).

Along the same line is the question of meson batteries bearing:  since they
can shoot through the ship itself, they should ALL be able to bear on an
enemy ship.

One objection to this concept is that firing through your own hull is
very dangerous and is not considered a safe practice.
(to me this seems pretty weak especially when the distances involved in
starship combat are considered.)




							Pauli
seeya

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Qld              | JANET:           grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4067         | EAN:                          grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!batserver.cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au

-------- TML Message #1538 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1538
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: (1534) Re: firearm calibers
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 90 1:39:47 EST


 In message 1534, adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) writes:
 >
 >Obligatory Traveller content:
 >Take note of all these different cartridge types, and note that a 9mm
 >ACR bought on one world may not accept ammo bought on another world!
 >Now you know why many people use lasers.

     Now that you mention it, you're quite right.  My (former,
unfortunately) gaming group was mostly US Army officer cadets (and one
butterbar ;-) ).  I could often take up an entire night of gaming with
getting them re-equipped with ammo, since they usually had their ammo
custom-made, using one of their original rounds as a sample.  They
never even *tried* to find compatible ammunition on the open market.
Depending on the local law level (and other factors), this activity
could often result in interesting things happening.  One time, they
had to fight their way out of a large city--but that's another story...


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163
PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)


-------- TML Message #1539 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1539
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 90 09:15:05 EDT
From: Greg Givler - Product Assurance <givler@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.COM>
Subject: Children


To Rob Dean:

My first child, a daughter, arrived in July, so she'll be nine weeks tomorrow.
Anyway she has had her nights too, with many more to come I'm sure. And I am 
already walking around the local malls looking at the girls hairdo's thinking,
if Rachel ever does something like that to her hair I will kill her :-). 
But I must say that since my wife and I have been trying for about 8 years to 
have a child, the total experience is awesome. 
I wouldn't trade it for the world. BTW, just to get you jealous, Rachel usually
goes to bed about 11-12PM and sleeps to 5-7AM. She is really a great baby,
I know that I am biased, but hang in there and just keep telling yourself that 
it will get better. 

Looking forward to many sleepless nights in the future, the proud Papa,

Greg

-------- TML Message #1540 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1540
Date:     Fri Sep  7 11:59:31 1990
From: RARAYA%UCHCEC4.cec.uchile.cl@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Subject:  Looking for a game...

Hi everybody!!
	I'm a new member of the list, and just enter for curiosity
	Here i haven't heared about any of the games you mention,
but i'm really interested in play one of them. I don't know
for what system they are, but for ibmpc , ibm vm/cms , digital
microvax , macintosh i can play one (i hope they are for one of
these computers).
So if anybody can help me to find such games (Megatraveller,
Traveller 2300 ,etc), please send me a personal e-mail,
or through the list.

		Thanks in advance....
			Cristian Ovalle
			RARAYA@UCHCECVM.BITNET

PS: Don't think in my bad english

-------- TML Message #1541 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1541
Date:     Fri, 7 Sep 90 16:34:02 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Inspiring Reading


-------- TML Message #1542 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1542
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 90 10:21 EDT
From: S94SERGIENKO%USUHSB.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Subject: meson weapons and shipboard mounts

The chief reason that meson weapons are exposed to external damage is
in the case of spinal mounted main weapons system.  Because the weapon
serves as the backbone/keel of the ship it is susceptible to damage
when hits are received near the spine.  The question raised from this is,
'what do spineless ships do?' (they run away, of course :-)).  Is it
possible to mount a meson weapon in the center of a dispersed structure
ship?  I can't think of anything in ship design that would prevent this.
I'm supposing the damage tables are an extension of "High Guard" when
meson weapons were solely spinal mounts.
As for bay and "turret" mounts, they probably can be, and should be,
buried as deeply as possible.  Then on the outer sections of the ship
you could put quarters, stores, and other areas that would be empty
during general quarters and could be depressurized.
And intuitively, you should be able to bring all meson weapons to bear
(if you can shot them through a planet, why not half a ship?), but the
reason may in some ship design or power constraint I haven't thought of.

eric sergienko

-------- TML Message #1543 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1543
Date:    Sun, 9 Sep 1990 3:17:44 EDT
From: Stephen Tihor <TIHOR@acfcluster.nyu.edu>
Subject: Meson guns

I am not sure I would like to have a meson gun firing through another meson 
gun or the ships fusor for two.  Most of the ship should be transparent to
meson fire although one might expect some "minor" sideffects along the axis of
fire, particularly are the first few tech levels for meson weaponry.  
For a large enough weapon these "side effects", trivial fractions of the 
main weapons power, might belarger than one would like effecting your own ship,
although they may well be acceptable in a planetary defense mode.

-------- End of TML Messages --------

